Anti-Flag

Ahead of one of Anti-Flag’s intimate club shows in Reading, UK we sat down with drummer Pat Thetic to talk about their latest record American Spring, the first Republican TV debate, running their own label, terrible band artwork and a whole lot more.

Check out the interview below.

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SF: So you were up in Blackpool last night playing Rebellion Fest, how was it?

PT: Yeah Rebellion, it is such a punk rock extravaganza and it was awesome actually. Everybody was really cool, and yeah it was a good show. We did a tour with with the UK subs back in 1996 and although they were playing tonight (Aug 8th)so  we didnt get to see them play, we did get to see them and hang out which was cool as we we havent seen them for such a long time. Plus it’s obviously a mecca of that kind of style of punk rock so its like a who’s who of the scene you’ve known for years, so its kinda like a reunion.

SF: I can imagine! You guys played second to last right?

PT: Yeah, Misfits were on after us.

SF: Cool, did you hang out with those guys at all?

PT: I didn’t actually, but the other guys in the band did and said they were seriously lovely people which is kind of funny right, as they gave our guys big hugs and everything and you’re like ‘it’s hard to hug a guy with spikes on’ you know? 

SF: Were you guys fans early on?

PT: As much as anybody is you know, everybody had a Misfits record at one point in our life. It’s interesting though, a band I was in at one point (not Anti-Fllag) were doing some Misfits covers and you realise how weird those songs are. Everything is weird time signatures, the numbers of parts is odd and its just a weird experience to try and play Misfits songs.

SF: That’s interesting as it seems like they should be so simple

PT: Yeah, exactly, it’s very misleading. It is actually quite a unique style, the way they wrote. Sorry, I’m off on a lot of tangents!

SF: No worries man, I love tangents!

PT: You’re gonna be writing and describing a lot of different things (laughs)

SF: It’s cool, I’m a huge Misfits fan (and a huge fan of you guys as well obviously) and I remember reading an interview with Doyle where he talks about writing riffs and says while he’s really good at playing the stuff he writes, he’s terrible at playing other stuff and admits that he’s not some sort of guitar impresario.

PT: That’s really interesting actually as I was told something similar really early on in my career. In Pittsburgh when I was young there wasn’t a lot of drummers around so I was in demand to play drums in all of my friend bands. You know someone would go out of town or quit and I’d sit in,and one of my friend said “Pat, you are really good at playing your own shit but you are horrible at doing anyone else’s stuff”! (laughs). I actually agreed with him, I absolutely can do my own thing, but back then I was kind of embarrassed about that because in my mind it meant that you’re not a very good player if you can’t do other stuff. Sometime later I saw this really great blues documentary (can’t remember the name) and the blues artist said something like “well the people who are really great musicians cant play other people’s music, they can only do their own thing and that’s way they are awesome. If you can play other people stuff, you play others people style and if you create your own stuff, you create your own style”. At that point I was like, alright then I’m not an asshole, I’m a dude who created his own style!

SF: Totally, It has just validated all that time you spent doing your own thing!

PT: Yeah! All that time beating myself up thinking I’m a shitty drummer and I can’t even play, and then all of a sudden I’m like, “hey I created a style”.

SF: So changing direction slightly I wanted to ask you about American Spring, it came out in May, have you guys been happy with the reaction and as this is your first link up with Spinefarm Records, how did all that come about?

PT: Yeah so Spinefarm were trying to do new and creative stuff so they actually reached out to us and we were pretty cool with that. I mean we have a record company (A-F Records), but overall we’re not fans of record companies. They are right up there with customs agents and police officers in my mind, but they are a necessary evil in the process. In that sense, we don’t have a lot of loyalty to record companies, we just like to work with different people who are doing interesting things. Saying that, it doesn’t mean we didn’t love the people at Fat (Wreck Chords), or SideOneDummy and all the other people weve worked with over the years, we’re just always looking for new people with new ideas to release records.

SF: Is it a necessary evil in the sense of distribution and marketing? I know you have released some Anti-Flag material stuff through your own label?

PT: Well it’s necessary in that it’s very difficult for us to be on tour and working the record. It’s very difficult to do both things at the same time and do them effectively. So you really need partners doing the important business of releasing records, while we’re out on tour doing what we do. In that sense it’s fun to work with other bands and we have a staff at home that can do that work when we’re not there, but to do a full on Anti-Flag record properly would be really difficult.

SF: So having made that point about having partners and staff, how much direct involvement do you have in the labels day to day running?

PT: When we’re home, we are there all the time talking about bands we like, who we want to release and when, why the artwork that the band delivered was so bad and why we need to get them to change it. So we’re always involved in the discussions.

SF: How to you choose the bands for the label, do people approach you, do you see someone on tour and then look to sign them up?

PT: Yeah, we obviously see a lot of cool stuff on tour and things also just come to us. People who are interested the things we do tend to gravitate towards each other, there’s a centre we all revolve around you know? If you’re into activist music, you will know us and then you just link up with people from there. Sometimes you just hear a band, and they are so just amazing you immediately think “how can i help them do something cool”? That’s really it for me, that’s what the record company is, to facilitate what the band wants to do, and try and make sure they don’t have crappy artwork! (laughs)

SF: (crappy artwork) seems to be a common theme?

PT: (laughs) Yeah, we’re doing some artwork battling at the moment, its kind of funny.

SF: The thing is, I’m sure they’ve got a friend they trust who did something for them and they maybe are a bit too close to it and don’t like it when someone tells them it isn’t as cool as they think it is!

PT: Absolutely, you need to explain to them that maybe that doesn’t represent the band that they are! I mean, I’ve obvosiouly been wrong about stuff in the past and there are bands that have released really shitty artwork, but it works and doesn’t hinder them.

SF: Yeah, it’s a bit of give and take!

PT: Yeah! (laughs) It’ss always a bit of give and take.

SF: If the music speaks for itself, you can get over the artwork! I also wanted to ask a bit about the writing process with you guys? Does it tend to be quite democratic, and has there ever been a point where you see something that inspires or enrages you to the point that all four of you bring something similar to the table?

PT: It’s a weird process actually, and each record is slightly different. Sometimes we will talk amongst ourselves about how fucked up something is, and it will percolate into everyone else’s consciousness and then when we sit down to write and the ideas just come out. Other times it’s more deliberate, ie there is something here that we want to make a statement on and Justin’s very good at taking a subject we want to talk about it and create something from it. Going back to what we were saying earlier, the way I play drums is sort of the filter, everything comes through me and filters out from there and becomes an Anti-Flag song. It’s definitely a very democratic process in the sense that we all get input on things and we never have a debate over the substance of the song or what were trying to talk about. What we do often debate is whether this the right way of delivering a lyric, does it help achieve our goal? There is a lot fo discussion around things like this, and then sometimes we’re more like, “Dude that bridge is way too fucking long, let’s cut it down and I know that you thing your solo is amazing, but we don’t need that”. (laughs) 

SF: So it’s a bit of give and take, like artwork debate?

PT: (laughs) Yeah, exactly! theres always a give and take.

SF: I read an interview with Chris Barker (#2) where he called American Spring a ‘tentpole moment’ for the band, meaning you had specific message, driven from all the shit currently going on in the world?

PT: Absolutely, and we were eager to make sure the artwork, the songs and the expression of what we’re doing is all in line. Sometimes we’ll just write some songs, put a good punk cover on it and put it out, but with American Spring  we had a bigger idea. We wanted to talk about how violence, revolution and distrust of everything is all connected and so the artwork and the songs all came together and it just all kind of clicked.

SF: It definitely works, the album is stunning! Do you ever get discouraged that stuff you wrote 20 years ago, like Fuck Police Brutality  (from Anti-Flag’s 1996 debut full length Die For Your Government) is still so relevant now?

PT: Well the thing is, it was also relevant then and nobody cared about it. For me its more interesting how activism is suddenly fashionable. Billy Bragg, who we love and has amazing things to say, talked about this idea that we’re all fighting for social justice all the time. but there are very few times in history when the rest of society is also deciding to fight for social justice. The people who are doing the day to day work in these organizations are the unsung heroes and they could be doing great work for 25-30 years talking about police brutality, but then the unfortunate reality is that it’s only when the issue goes into mainstream that any sort change starts to happen. That’s how things get to change really, because it becomes a national dialogue versus a local or regional one.

SF: I think part of the challenge is that with the 24 hours networks defining the national narrative in a lot of cases, it seems much harder to keep an issue in the public consciousness.

PT: Yeah, but because of that, change needs to happen right then and there. If it doesn’t then we’re going to wait for another 15 years of young black man being killed where there’s outrage in the local community but nothing changes. There needs to be an incentive to change at this point.

SF: So actually, staying with the political theme, it was the first Republican primary debate last night..

PT: Yeah, what a clown show that was! (laughs)

SF: Did you watch it?

PT: No, I think we were actually on stage when it was on, but I read all about it this afternoon.

SF: I watched bits of it and it just looked, well as you would expect it be with Fox News hosting…

PT: Well when Megyn Kelly is the one who’s fighting for women’s rights against Donald Trump, it really shows how ridiculous the whole thing is.

SF: In one sense I almost think that the Donald Trump thing is a weird one as he’s ultimately just going to split the Republican base meaning the Democrats are likely to win. I know it’s the lesser of two evils, but still…

PT: Well yeah, I think Hilary is a fucking mess and none of us like her, but it is what’s going to happen. Justin had this theory about Trump, which I didn’t believe, but then I was reading an article in The Guardian talking about how he is just a Democratic operative for the Clintons and is going to run as independent. If that happens, there’s no way the Republicans are going to win and he is just going to continue to say abhorrent things and erode the GOP base. At first I thought it was ridiculous as Trump has way too much of an ego for that, but then during the debate last night, one of the things they were going after him for was the fact that just before he announced his candidacy he had a long conversation with Bill Clinton on the phone. Also Hilary was at his wedding, so they have a connection.

SF: I didn’t realise they were so closely linked?

PT: Well people in power are so closely linked, and that is why we always lose. It doesn’t really matter, they are all cahoots with each other, and they are all there to reinforce their own power and the rest of us are left to eat the scraps.

SF: This is the First Night (From 2009’s The People or the Gun) to me has a similar tone and melody to some of Joe Strummer’s solo work. Can you talk about a bit about early musical influences and what drove you guys to start Anti-Flag in the first place?

PT: Well obviously The Clash are fucking awesome. We were at an event the other day and the woman who was interviewing me made the point that punk rock was never really about rock, it was more a folk thing, connected with the protest element, just played faster! I actually agree with that, and that’s what The Clash did so well, they brought in that folky, anti-establishment protest music element into their sound.  It was the revolution music, the activist music, the protest music so I think that stuff is what speaks to us and that is definitely where we go to for our writing. We’ve never been metalheads, never into Black Sabbath, we were more into Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Dylan and those types of artists. The activist style suited us and we just try to play it faster! (laughs)

SF: And doing it incredibly well it must be said!

PT: Flattery will get you everywhere! (laughs) 

SF: Ha! That was my ploy coming in! On your longevity as band, you guys have been around 20 years now (is it actually 20 this year)?

PT: Well it depends on how you count as Justin and I grew up together, we’ve been playing music since 1988, but it was 93/94 when we got the bass player (Sean Whelan) that’s on Die For Your Government, but Justin and I have been playing and travelling and doing music since we were relly young. The really funny thing is that (Chris) head and (Chris) #2 are the new guys and they’ve been in the band for 15 years at this point, so they’re not really that new!

SF: But they’re still known as the new guys?

PT: Yeah (laughs) I can always play the “I’m an original member. I may suck at playing drums but I’ve been here longer”

SF: So the new guys get all the terrible jobs?

PT: Yeah, exactly! (laughs)

SF: One of other things I wanted to ask about, and apologies as I am about to make a massive assumption here, but being as I’m Canadian and you guys are from Pittsburgh, are you a hockey fan?

PT: Actually, no (Chris) #2 is a hockey fan, but I come from the era of punk rock where sports had no place in the scene. When I was young, I played a lot of sport and then I just saw the competition as such bullshit and the whole us vs them thing. It just didn’t make any sense to me, and one I had that realisation, it’s just not my thing.

SF: Fair enough! I did read an interview with (Chris) #2 where he talks about a track you guys did for one of the NHL video games?

PT: Oh yeah, he loves hockey he’ll fucking fight me to the death on how great hockey is! (laughs). I seriously don’t give a fuck. The thing thast always kills me is he’ll say “We won this game or that game” and I’ll say “Which part of the game did you play? What did you have to do with it”? Where does this whole “We” come from? (laughs)

SF: One thing I love about the way you guys write is that you have this fantastic way of combining astute, cerebral political commentary in one verse, whilst the next will simply be ‘and a fuck you’.  It’s almost like that teenage angst has just never gone away, you just have a better understanding of the reasons for that anger?

PT: Well that’s because the music we music we grew up on was the ‘fuck you’ music and that appeals to us so much. Sometimes we might get to a point where one of us might say “this might be too much hippie bullshit”, so we will have to get some ‘fuck you’s’ in there. Yeah, the anger is definitely a part of who we are as a band because without that anger there’s no motivation for change. You need to take that anger, that frustration as it drives that passion to take action and make change in ourselves and other people.

SF: I know you guys like to get something out every year, so can you share any plans for 2016?

PT: We actually have a live recording that we did last year over 2 nights in LA, so at the moment we’re picking the songs we like the best from those 2 nights. We will be looking to release something for the end of this year, early next year, and that will be be on A-F records.

SF: So last question, I read an article recently where Justin wrote a letter to his younger self…

PT: Interesting, I hadn’t heard about this. (laughs)

SF: Would you ever tempted to do something similar and if you could give your younger self some advice, what would it be?

PT: To be honest with you I would rather have my younger self tell my older self what’s up. Sometimes as you get older everything becomes so hippie bullshit, so that young passion and anger is still very much needed. As we get older, we are more likely to accept that there is a reason why its like that, where my younger self would question that in a ” fuck you, that’s not the way it is”. There needs to be less compromise and more doing whats right. So yeah, I would much rather have my younger self write a letter to my older self, saying: ‘quit fucking compromising and let’s get something done’! (laughs)

SF: Well thanks very much for taking time out to speak to me, really appreciate it!

PT: No problem, thanks a lot!

Anti-Flag’s latest record American Spring is out now on Spinefarm Records, and the band are back touring the UK and Europe in October and November, check http://www.anti-flag.com/tour-dates/ for details.